Curse

Granamyr · Oct 04, 2010, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

money (and everything else which isn't player's skill) has to be meaningless after a very early point, because instead hardcore farmers would gain more benefits from the game than casual players

They already do! That is why they farm! Furthermore, why do you care if someone that invests more time in the game gets more benefits from it? That would seem logical to me.

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ANet would never do this because titles and rare items have been brought into the game for this precise reason

You're contradicting yourself. On one hand you say that the game shouldn't reward grinding and then on the other you want to keep current grinding systems in place that functionally reward players. People get plenty of money in this game that I feel they should have a choice in allocating toward their particular grind....and let's call them what they are. If you care about titles, elite armor, vanity, etc, you have to grind to get it. There are some functional or convenience aspects of this game that also require a grind such as rep titles, specific weaponry, consets, etc. Why is it ok to allow people to spend money on a vanity grind but not on a functional grind? This isn't PvP, there is no advantage you need to prohibit in PvE.

There seems to be a prevailing misconception here that the designers don't want farmers to get more from the game than casual players. This is just false. Their "mission statement" was that you essentially don't have to grind to have fun or be competitive. They say nothing about if you do choose to grind and that is where people seem to be inserting words/beliefs into the developers that they never said or believed. Rewarding the rich doesn't prohibit the casual from having fun or keep the casual from being competitive...remember, we're talking PvE here. In fact, it should inspire the casual to get rich and the way the game throws money at you, it really isn't that hard. If we both go to a baseball game and I can afford really nice seats and you have to sit in the nose-bleed section, how does my having "more fun" keep you from enjoying the game? The notion is absurd. The argument is purely based on class-envy which unfortunately is also very prevalent in this discussion.

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Honestly, using RL analogies to describe an in-game phenomenon isn't accurate since there are so many other factors that influence the differences between these environments.

Of course it's accurate....it's just a device used to help people understand a concept -- in this case, functional reward. Apparently I failed though because after explaining the concept, the most common response is people listing vanity-based or otherwise wasteful ideas I should spend my money on. They also incorrectly assume that I haven't already done these things which is one of my main reasons for suggesting something functional. It would come off as bragging to list all of what I've done with money....I say this so that you can save your time trying to come up with non-functional ways to spend money. I've done them.

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This right here is completely truth. Farmers who grind should not have a functional advantage over normal players.

Why? Don't hide behind "because that's how the devs want it". That simply isn't true as I explained above.
I'd also object to the term "normal players" as I consider anyone that plays to be a normal player. One isn't any more right a player than the other. Both seek to have fun.

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Your problem is that you think this is a problem. It's by design.

Finally, a decent response....and brief too. It's a problem because it's a poor design. I consider it poor design to have the main currency of one's game become functionally useless at a very early stage and yet that still becomes the main reward given in the game throughout all stages. If you want to maintain the flawed concept that gold shouldn't buy function.....ok, then the game should give you ecto as a main reward instead of gold. Currency shouldn't be tied to only one aspect of a game's reward system....in this case, vanity. Currency, to be designed properly, should be able to buy rewards universally.

FoxBat · Oct 05, 2010, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granamyr

If you want to maintain the flawed concept that gold shouldn't buy function.....ok, then the game should give you ecto as a main reward instead of gold.

I don't see how this follows. Whether you use the ecto trader or not, an ecto-gold correlation is guaranteed by the trader's existence. Ecto also has low granularity being given out in 6 or 7k chunks while gold appears in as small amounts as 15 after a party split. There are also extremely expensive cosmetic rewards such as Vabbi and Torment stuffs that require things other than ectos, gold is just a generic currency that you can convert into the other specific tokens you need for X or Y bling.

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Currency shouldn't be tied to only one aspect of a game's reward system....in this case, vanity. Currency, to be designed properly, should be able to buy rewards universally.

Is the problem here gold or the problem that there aren't functional rewards period that could even concievably be purchased? If the latter the issue isnt' that "gold can't buy rewards universally", it's that "high-end functional rewards don't exist." And while that is a fine premise, it's not really been explained or established why this is necessarily any better than Anet's premise of "form only."

Lanier · Oct 05, 2010, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granamyr

They already do! That is why they farm! Furthermore, why do you care if someone that invests more time in the game gets more benefits from it? That would seem logical to me.

The issue here isn't farmers spending more time ingame than other players. A lot of farmers dont. The issue is that farmers can make money a lot faster doing the same, repetitive, boring, thing over and over again. In the same amount of time, a farmer can make a lot more money than a normal GW player. No one should be "functionally" rewarded for doing repetitive, boring farms over and over again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granamyr

Why? Don't hide behind "because that's how the devs want it". That simply isn't true as I explained above.
I'd also object to the term "normal players" as I consider anyone that plays to be a normal player. One isn't any more right a player than the other. Both seek to have fun.

Who uses the "thats how the devs want it" arguement anymore anyway? I havnt seen someone use that arguement in a couple of years now. There are plenty of other reasons why farmers should not have a functional objective over "normal players" (i use that term b/c the majority of the playerbase does not farm or finds farming to be unappealing). It really all comes down to the fact that everyone does have a different definition of what is fun. Some, like yourself it seems, find farming to be fun. Others, like myself, enjoy messing around in hm or elite areas with my guildies and vanquishing from time to time. The fact is that everyone has their own definition of fun, and anet shouldn't reward one playstyle over another functionally. Farmers are already rewarded (somewhat) vanity-wise over the rest of the PvE playerbase. There is no reason why their style of gameplay should be rewarded functionally over another person's style of gameplay.

This game is not real life. In games, fun is the top priority, and therefore different styles of "fun" should not be disproportionately rewarded functionally over other playstyles. In life, the top priority is to be successful, and that is where having functionally currency is important.

That is why real life analogies can't be used to explain ingame phenomenons in regards to currency and economy.

Kydd · Oct 05, 2010, 02:28 AM // 02:28

I think rewarding people who grind with shiny armor that doesn't really matter is way better than rewarding with actual content that cant be accessed without grind like you are suggesting.

/notsigned

galactic · Oct 05, 2010, 04:32 AM // 04:32

ERROR:statement invalid

gold isnt always the reward???

its used to buy armor??? and stuff

title track is a reward???

Granamyr · Oct 05, 2010, 07:19 AM // 07:19

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I don't see how this follows.

If the latter part of the game is only to be about "bling" then I would expect the rewards to be geared toward that for consistency's sake. As it stands, there are a decent amount of us being rewarded with something we find useless. Practically every quest carries with it a gold reward and most of them are over 2k. If we're to adopt the flawed concept of only vanity-based rewards, then the game should give items more geared toward the acquisition of said items. Lower reward quests should give diamonds, onyx, etc and those quests that normally carry a 10k reward should give out a couple ecto. Now I don't really want this, I'd rather they fixed the system instead of making it consistent but I could hardly make a post that "gold becomes inferior" if gold were much more rare.

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Is the problem here gold or the problem that there aren't functional rewards period that could even concievably be purchased?

It's both but it's more the latter. And it isn't a better premise, rather it should be an equal premise. I don't want to take away the pursuit of "look at me" items, I do want something provided for people that don't care about that or at least have grown tired of it.

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Some, like yourself it seems, find farming to be fun.

I find to be fun much of the same things you find fun....and I used to like farming too. That's not why I'm rich though. You can't be in this game since the beta and not be extremely wealthy. I have access to some friends' accounts that stopped playing after the first 6 months. I could log in to those accounts and have more money than I could ever functionally spend in a matter of minutes.

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No one should be "functionally" rewarded for doing repetitive, boring farms over and over again.

Again, you're standing on a principle you can't reasonably explain.....you'd have to resort to class-envy to do so and I find that to be a weak argument. Tell me how a 10k-a-pop weapon crafter that allows you to create customized, generic weapon skinned items based on mods you've unlocked kills the game for the casual player? Tell me how a 5k, 24-hour, Hero PvE-skill allotment takes away from the casual player's fun? Tell me how 6k/10k per NM/HM missions to be filled out in a rep book rewards grind over skill? It rewards grind over grind!!

These are ideas I came up with in a couple minutes worth of thought and some of them might very well suck. I'm not sure why you're fighting me on this though instead of trying to find a functional solution for an obvious problem. Why are you so married to the current reward system when it so clearly neglects a portion of the gaming population....and it always has in every MMO. ANet's motto above all has been to not accept business as usual problems as "just the way it is". You guys are probably much more creative than I am -- suggest something better if my ideas suck.

Swahnee · Oct 05, 2010, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granamyr

They already do! That is why they farm! Furthermore, why do you care if someone that invests more time in the game gets more benefits from it? That would seem logical to me.

No, they don't. While farming, they earn a lot of money which, by your own statement, aren't worth much. The only thing that farmers earn by farming is shiny items and titles, and that's quite a good thing in my view. The difference from games and real life is that you can choose what game you want to play. If you don't like gw not rewarding farmers so much, you can play other games which revolve around farming and grinding.

I think that a lot of people here debating with you are just trying to defend the philosophy of skill>time which is tied to this game, and it's the reason a lot of people have bought and are still buying this game (i myself still advertise this game saying that here you can have everything you need to play functionally without spending much time).

You say that it's logical for you that people who invest more time in the game should get more benefit from it, but this isn't this game's goal. Now, if you'd like this game to change and become more similar to other games where you have to spend a lot of time to get functional benefits, well, that's your right, but this isn't "logical" at all, it's only your point of view. It's a game design, and it's not flawed (maybe, it's flawed for you but not for a lot of other people, as it seems).

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You're contradicting yourself. On one hand you say that the game shouldn't reward grinding and then on the other you want to keep current grinding systems in place that functionally reward players.

I think you understood perfectly that i never said that i want grind to reward players. This is just trivial rhetoric. I said that the developers put grind into this game for business reasons, so they will never remove it. How can this mean that i want grind to stay in this game, or that i ever liked it?

The problem here is the same that arise when people talk about speed clears and PvE skills, there are some who say that if someone does speed clears or uses PvE skills, it doesn't hurt other people's fun, they can find other people who share their ideas and play with them, etc..

The reality, instead, is that there is a "meta", which is the way the majority of people play. In the ursan days, it was almost impossible to do anything with someone else without using ursan. It wasn't a matter of fun, it was a matter of functionality. People used ursan even to do easy vanquishes, and i have nothing against people who like button smash to achieve rewards, but please, this isn't a game like that. There are plenty of other games where you can button smash all the time, why can't we keep this game tied to the skill philosophy? Ursan, and every other very functional thing, like consumables, pve-skill and heroes, change dramatically the meta, and drive the game far from his skill philosophy. If you put another functional thing into this game, you will cause another meta changing which will furthermore push gw far from the game a lot of people have bought, because suddenly the majority of people will start farming to get those benefits, in the same way everyone used ursan because it was functional, and this game will become another WoW clone where you have to grind and farm. Sure, you say, you can play casually not farming if you wish, how could this hurt your fun? It will hurt my fun because this is a multiplayer game i bought to play with other people without having to grind, and with your changes, refusing to grind i will hardly find anyone to play with, like i couldn't find anyone to play with, not using ursan in the ursan era.

Again, i've got nothing against people who like some kind of playstyle, but why do you want to change this game to fit your own playstyle? You are free to play other games that you like more than this. This is a game where gold, wealth, rare items and such don't matter at all by design. This is a game which allows you to have fun challenging your skill of creating effective builds with the few things you are given at start, or to go around in PvE looking at the graphics. Period. Don't you like it? This isn't real life, you can change game.

Sirius Bsns · Oct 05, 2010, 09:59 AM // 09:59

No one's forcing you to use PvP skills to do anything. Also, the game's pretty much soloable nowadays... so why must the now very few remaining players be limited to your implied philosophy? If other players are content with the skills and their functionalities as they currently are now, why do you desire to have them ripped away from them? Can you not play the game otherwise? Does your playing the game rely upon everyone else so much that the best and most optimized builds used by other players simply must be nerfed to death in order for you to be happy?

Swahnee · Oct 05, 2010, 02:05 PM // 14:05

There's no need to make such an exaggeration, i can be very happy even without playing this game. I'm simply sad about the fact that the game is becoming more and more a single-player game, and i don't like suggestions, like the OP's one, which could drive the game further along this direction. However, that was only my opinion; if the vast majority of players want to play as they did in ursan era, well, more power to them.

OP made a suggestion, and i simply wrote my opinion. It isn't true at all that the way of playing of some people doesn't hurt the way of playing of others. It does indeed, so don't try to stop some people when they claim that some changes are hurting them; the argument of "don't like, don't use" is invalid because in some cases people can't simply play the way they want (which often, in a mmo, implies playing with other people, sorry for that, and not because they "need" it, but because they "like" it). Then, if the majority doesn't like some way of playing, it's obvious that ANet will cater to them. People disagreeing, like me too, will simply move on. But i hope that being minority doesn't mean not to be able to speak.

C R A Y O L A · Oct 05, 2010, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kydd

I think rewarding people who grind with shiny armor that doesn't really matter is way better than rewarding with actual content that cant be accessed without grind like you are suggesting.

/notsigned

QFT

The whole thing that appealed to me about Guild Wars was Anet's mentality of skill > time.
Someone wasting countless hours grinding shouldn't have an advantage over the casual player who doesn't have the time due to real life commitments.
The system is fine right now.
Kydd is correct in saying that a "shiny new armor" is more than sufficient in rewarding grinders.

My $0.02 anyways...

diabiosx · Oct 06, 2010, 03:40 AM // 03:40

uumm?? can you define functional use?? I'm kinda confused.
It really seems like its just a matter of opinion that you hold that many dont agree with.
To me the following things has functional use
Gold lets me buy useful things from merchents(too many to list).
Gold buys ectos which then can buy anything of high value(particularly super rare weapons).
I can use gold to AFK and get runned to places.
Gold can let me max some of my titles for HoM(lucky,treasure hunter, elite skills, etc.)
I can use Gold to buy Zkeys for zaishen rank.
I can use Gold and go to Nolani Acedemy and get myself some artworks of my toons.
I can use gold to buy armor.
I can use gold to buy consets.

If you cant find any use for gold in this game then congrats you have done/gotten everything you wanted in this game, move on to another game.

Granamyr · Oct 06, 2010, 01:39 PM // 13:39

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can you define functional use?? I'm kinda confused

Happy to...glad you asked.

Functional use is probably two-tiered and I'll throw convenient use in there too.
1) Spending money allows you to do some function or acquire something mainly functional
-Examples: Secondary Profession Changer, first-time storage access fee, UW and FoW access fees, weapon crafters, skill trainers, merchant, rune trader, consets
2) Spending money allows you something convenient
-Examples: Runners, Guild Hall NPC's, etc

This is to be contrasted by what is not functional, namely gold used for style, aesthetic or vain purposes.
-Examples: Elite armor, non-functional titles, Hall of Monuments, Hero Armor, Weapon skins, Fireworks and other party related items

My main point is that there aren't very many functional uses for gold once you've made about 20-30k. Almost all of the functional and convenient uses for gold are relatively cheap....and largely I'm ok with that. The ones I've listed should be cheap. Most of the uses for gold are non-functional and those are relatively expensive. Problem is, there is (actually, there "was") a decent portion of the community that doesn't care about or grew tired of non-functional uses for gold. For them, gold became a very useless reward and thus were being improperly rewarded for their time. This is why some of them moved on as the game ceased to be rewarding for them. Were I a developer, I would find this unacceptable and something I would want to change as it impacts most every MMO.

This is not to say though that I have intentions of moving on and I'd like to clear up another mentality that seems to plague most of you here. First off, it is in practically everyone's nature to be critical of change, especially on the internet. Don't take the preponderance of people here being critical and project that onto the populace as a whole....it is inaccurate do so. Second, and more importantly, enough with the suggestions to quit or find another game. People leap to these extremes when discussing issues and it serves no one. Someone has a minor gripe with the country, "why don't you leave then?", you don't like your boss, "why don't you quit your job", gold becomes an inferior reward in GW rather quickly, "go find another game". The notion is as absurd as you contemplating suicide when you get a runny nose.

Please refrain from making such crazy leaps in judgment as they don't do either of us any good.

diabiosx · Oct 06, 2010, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granamyr

Happy to...glad you asked.

Functional use is probably two-tiered and I'll throw convenient use in there too.
1) Spending money allows you to do some function or acquire something mainly functional
-Examples: Secondary Profession Changer, first-time storage access fee, UW and FoW access fees, weapon crafters, skill trainers, merchant, rune trader, consets
2) Spending money allows you something convenient
-Examples: Runners, Guild Hall NPC's, etc

This is to be contrasted by what is not functional, namely gold used for style, aesthetic or vain purposes.
-Examples: Elite armor, non-functional titles, Hall of Monuments, Hero Armor, Weapon skins, Fireworks and other party related items

My main point is that there aren't very many functional uses for gold once you've made about 20-30k. Almost all of the functional and convenient uses for gold are relatively cheap....and largely I'm ok with that. The ones I've listed should be cheap. Most of the uses for gold are non-functional and those are relatively expensive. Problem is, there is (actually, there "was") a decent portion of the community that doesn't care about or grew tired of non-functional uses for gold. For them, gold became a very useless reward and thus were being improperly rewarded for their time. This is why some of them moved on as the game ceased to be rewarding for them. Were I a developer, I would find this unacceptable and something I would want to change as it impacts most every MMO.

This is not to say though that I have intentions of moving on and I'd like to clear up another mentality that seems to plague most of you here. First off, it is in practically everyone's nature to be critical of change, especially on the internet. Don't take the preponderance of people here being critical and project that onto the populace as a whole....it is inaccurate do so. Second, and more importantly, enough with the suggestions to quit or find another game. People leap to these extremes when discussing issues and it serves no one. Someone has a minor gripe with the country, "why don't you leave then?", you don't like your boss, "why don't you quit your job", gold becomes an inferior reward in GW rather quickly, "go find another game". The notion is as absurd as you contemplating suicide when you get a runny nose.

Please refrain from making such crazy leaps in judgment as they don't do either of us any good.

Runs are very expensive. they can go up to 20k.
Buying armor, regardless of it being elite is also expensive. As a PvP player who wants to use his PvE toons, you need to get multiple armor sets inorder to spec the best runes for maps,builds, counter builds. You also need many weapon sets and shield sets(different inscriptions, types of upgrades) as well.
These are very expensive(even if you go the cheapest route).

Plus who is it to say that elite armor doesnt have functional use, they make it easier for you to join pugs in pve, people rather take a guy with FoW armor than some cheap armor dude when they are 7/8 and both of them decide to join at the same time. Plus people compliment you for having good taste rather than flaming you.

HoM titles does have functional, they give you reward for GW2.

Lanier · Oct 06, 2010, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granamyr

Again, you're standing on a principle you can't reasonably explain.....you'd have to resort to class-envy to do so and I find that to be a weak argument.

Why do you automatically assume that those arguing against you with "unreasonable arguements" are envious of your wealth. I have a good deal of cash myself, and it doesn't really go toward anything. I put aside my real life for a month of the entire summer in order to farm for my obby armor. To be blunt, Im not envious of your wealth b/c I have access to wealth myself. You shouldn't automatically assume that people are "resorting to class-envy".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granamyr

Tell me how a 10k-a-pop weapon crafter that allows you to create customized, generic weapon skinned items based on mods you've unlocked kills the game for the casual player? Tell me how a 5k, 24-hour, Hero PvE-skill allotment takes away from the casual player's fun? Tell me how 6k/10k per NM/HM missions to be filled out in a rep book rewards grind over skill? It rewards grind over grind!!

Uh, I believe that here you are putting words in my mouth. I don't recall saying that it "took away from the casual player's fun". If I did, then go ahead and quote me, but im pretty sure that I never said that. That said, Im against giving heroes PvE skills at all, no matter how much they cost. I do not like PvE skills due to them not making sense role-playing-wise and due to them destroying class differentiation. That said, I am still against pretty much anything that allows the rich to get any more of a functional advantage over the no-so-rich than the functional advantages they already have. The game difficulty should roughly be on an equal level for people of all in-game economic "classes", if that is how you want to think about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granamyr

These are ideas I came up with in a couple minutes worth of thought and some of them might very well suck. I'm not sure why you're fighting me on this though instead of trying to find a functional solution for an obvious problem. Why are you so married to the current reward system when it so clearly neglects a portion of the gaming population....and it always has in every MMO. ANet's motto above all has been to not accept business as usual problems as "just the way it is". You guys are probably much more creative than I am -- suggest something better if my ideas suck.

This is the primary point of what I have been trying to say. There is nothing wrong with the gold/currency system and its relation to functionality vs Vanity rewards. When all you need is 20-30k to be functionally equivilent to the farmer with a xunlai chest full of ectos, the game is just the way it should be. No one should be forced to farm in order to get an equal amount of functional rewards that a farmer gets.

Besides, its not like you have nothing to spend money on. I am constantly spending money lockpicks, skills, and new armors or weapons (for when I want a change of appearance). Yes, I am well aware that new armors and weapons do not give me a functional advantage, but its not like my money is sitting stagnant in my xunlai chest.

Swahnee · Oct 07, 2010, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granamyr

This is not to say though that I have intentions of moving on and I'd like to clear up another mentality that seems to plague most of you here. First off, it is in practically everyone's nature to be critical of change, especially on the internet. Don't take the preponderance of people here being critical and project that onto the populace as a whole....it is inaccurate do so. Second, and more importantly, enough with the suggestions to quit or find another game. People leap to these extremes when discussing issues and it serves no one. Someone has a minor gripe with the country, "why don't you leave then?", you don't like your boss, "why don't you quit your job", gold becomes an inferior reward in GW rather quickly, "go find another game". The notion is as absurd as you contemplating suicide when you get a runny nose.

Please refrain from making such crazy leaps in judgment as they don't do either of us any good.

Eh..the game of exaggeration..another time. What's so difficult into understanding that in our case you can change game if it doesn't satisfy you, while in real life you can't? If tomorrow i start a new game and i find out that i don't like it, and that most other people like it the way it is, i will stop playing it, i won't try to convince every other player that they are wrong, and that the game is wrong and should be changed. If tomorrow i'll find that i'm having problems with my friends (or every other rl example you talked about) i will try to find a solution, because gaming is not real life, i can't start another life fresh new if i'm bored, like i can do with games, so i have to adapt to it, or try to change it. You seem to be missing a fundamental difference between gaming and real life.

Then, you say that people are naturally resistant to change (obviously putting you in the category of the good people who are able to change), but haven't you ever realized that this is a double-edged weapon? It's true that in this case i don't feel the need to change idea, and i provided arguments for this (even if you tried not to see them, claiming that i don't agree with you "because i'm resistant to change", like i was a little kid crying and stomping feet), but don't you realize that here you too aren't willing to change your point of view that people in this game should be rewarded for their time investment, even if this means that hardcore farmers should be given better rewards than casual players? We aren't the only ones not willing to change, are we? In cases like this, however, civil people will bring arguments, and if they are strong, they will make other people change idea. If they aren't, civil people won't start personal attacks saying that different-minded people are wrong and "resistant to change", they will simply accept that there are different points of view.

Now, to solve this diatribe, i've no problem in saying that what i talked about in my previous posts are only my personal opinion (all those things about skill>time, casuals having the same rewards as hardcore, people moving on if they stop having fun with the game, etc..). Don't you agree with this? Fine, it's your right and i'm not judging you for this. But please, stop thinking that your point of view is the only one right, and that people not accepting it are "resistant to change", or have "ideas that plague most of you here", like you were the only wise man in a room full of mads. I can understand that you are disappointed about your idea being rejected by the community, but if you take your time to browse this forum, you'll see that there are plenty of cases where people accepted happily some changes to the game someone else was suggesting. You simply made a suggestion not liked by the community..it can happen, my friend.

Mashiyu · Oct 08, 2010, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horus Moonlight

Though a weaponsmith with standard skins, inscriptions, and upgrades you've unlocked would be nice.

This. Or a weapon upgrade crafter(< preferred) / trader.

Btw: I have no problem with spending gold, as my money titles are at about 2k points. (but they are non-functional ... until we have detailed information about the HoM rewards)

ThreatToSociety · Oct 14, 2010, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Gimme some of your money if you got too much ^^

chuckles79 · Oct 15, 2010, 06:41 PM // 18:41

I hate the idea of PvE getting access to PvP crafters, making starting a new toon already more mind numbingly easy than it already is.

I actually like the idea of new elite areas with high access costs. It would discourage griefing and people with poor time management skills. However, it won't happen due to the staff limitations of people still working on GW1 (I honestly thought that new elite areas dedicated to the other Gods would have been nice). I really think a Forested area with druids for Melandru or a fluid landscape/maze for Lyssa would have been nice. Even a non area reward system from Dwayna based upon good deeds (donate one weapon to player under lvl 5 for random chance at chest)

I also like the last idea, 5-10k per a hero per a PvE skill unlocked for 1 hour? There is no way you can make that kind of money back unless you get a very lucky drop (obby blade, etc) so you would have to spend wisely.